TSLP Season 4 Ep. 13- Unhealed Betrayal Impacts

We dive into how past experiences of betrayal, whether personal or professional can shape how leaders show up, often creating guardedness, over control, or difficulty trusting others. Dr. Debi shares transformative insight on recognizing these patterns, healing from them, and leading from a place of strength, clarity, and emotional resilience.

This conversation is a must-listen for leaders who want to build healthier relationships, stronger teams, and a more authentic leadership presence.

Learn more about Dr. Sebi Silber
Website: https://thepbtinstitute.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debisilber/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/InspireEmpowerTransform
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/debisilber

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Some of the greatest barriers to leadership, trust, and growth, they're not external challenges. No, they're actually internal wounds that are left unaddressed. You and I know that unhealed betrayal, it has a way of quietly shaping how we as leaders think, how we respond, trust, and how we show up in our relationships with our teams and opportunities. I can't wait to dive into this conversation. Come on, let's go ahead and get started. We don't just talk about transformation, we lead it, we live it, and we ignite it in others. I'm your host, Adrian Benton, and today we're exploring a deeply transformational topic. That's right, we're talking about unhealed betrayal impact. I am so excited that today, today, today, I have Dr. Debbie with us. And we're gonna have an amazing conversation because she's a renowned expert in betrayal recovery, in resilience, and transformation. Her work has helped countless individuals and leaders understand how unresolved betrayal affects trust and confidence and communication and the ability to lead effectively. Let me tell you a little bit more about Dr. Debbie. She's the founder of the PBT Post-Betrayal Transformation Institute and National Forgiveness Day, celebrated annually on September the 1st. She's an award-winning speaker, a two-time number one international best-selling author. Her podcast, From Betrayal to Breakthrough, guess what, guys? It's also globally ranked within the top 1.5% of podcasts. She's my hero. Her recent PhD study on how you and I, how we experience betrayal, made three groundbreaking discoveries that changes how long it takes to heal. In addition to being on Fox, CBS, the Dr. Oz show, TED X Twice and more. She's dedicated to helping leaders like you and I move past our betrayals, as well as any other blocks that prevent us from the health, work, relationships, confidence, and happiness that we want most. It is time now, Dr. Debbie. I am so thrilled, honored, and excited to have you with us here on Transformation Station today. Oh, looking forward to our conversation. Absolutely. So, you know, in preparation for this, I have been doing some thinking. And I've been thinking, you know, that word betrayal, it's a heavy word, right? And betrayal doesn't stay confined to the moment that it happened. I have found through the years, Doc, that when left unhealed, betrayal quietly influences my decision making, my emotional responses, my communication patterns, and my ability to trust others, even those who are on my team. So I want to start off with this question. When betrayal goes unhealed, how does it show up in leadership, in relationships, and in decision making?

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Oh, it shows up in everything. And here's the thing: until and unless we intentionally and deliberately heal it, it will follow us around in everything. And I'm not just talking about years, I'm talking about decades, even a lifetime. So these are classic ways we see it. Like in relationships, we'll see an unhealed betrayal in one of two ways. The first, we'll see it in repeat betrayal. Classic sign it's unhealed. The faces change, but it's the same thing. So you go from boss to boss to boss, friend to friend to friend, partner to partner, partner. You say, Is it me? Yes, it is. Not in that it's your fault, in that it's your opportunity. There's a profound lesson needing to be learned. Like learn already that you are lovable, worthy, and deserving. Learn that you need better boundaries in place. Whatever that lesson is for you, until and unless you get that, you're gonna have opportunities in the form of people to teach you. So repeat betrayals, classic sign it's unhealed. The second way we see it in relationships is the big wall goes up. We're like, nope, been there, done that, no one's getting near me again. We think that's coming from a place of strength. In fact, it's coming from fear that's not healed, that's hardened. And we've tested over a hundred thousand people to see to what extent they're struggling. 67% of people betrayed do that. So think about it. That person who betrayed you, they may not even be alive anymore. And here you are decades later, keeping people at a distance, not having that level of connection or intimacy or closeness because of that. That just shows it's unhealed. Anyway, we see it in health. People go to the most well-meaning doctors, coaches, healers, therapists to manage stress-related symptoms, illness, condition, disease. At the root of it is an unhealed betrayal. We see it, yeah, and we see it at work too. You let's say you deserve that razor promotion, but your confidence was shattered in the betrayal. You don't have the confidence to ask. Or you want to be a team player, collaborative partner, but the person you trusted the most proved untrustworthy. So you don't, right? So how do you trust your boss, your coworker, your partner shows up everywhere?

SPEAKER_00 5:52

You're giving us a masterclass already. And we just started. We just started, right? You know, as you're talking, I'm I'm thinking about some of the ways in which it shows up. Um, I'm thinking about micromanaging. You know, somebody in the past betrayed you, and now with this current team, you're micromanaging. You don't trust anybody to get things done on their own, assuming negative intent. That's a big one in a lot of workspaces, right? Somebody does something, and rather than you know, taking it for face value, asking questions to see what really happened, you instantly judge what happened with a oh, they they meant negative.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

And I love that you brought up trust. Here's, and I wrote the book Trust Again. So trust is huge. It is absolutely shattered with betrayal. Here's one of the biggest things people get wrong. Well-meaning coaches, counselors, therapists, they'll say to somebody who's been betrayed, Well, you know, you need to learn how to trust again. So this isn't good. Let's start with like a low-stakes thing. Start with like a friend or something, and just a little way to start learning how to trust again. That is so flawed, and here's why. Think about it. When we have our own system that we create to discern if someone is trustworthy. So let's say our own system is if that person says or does something consistently, repeatedly, I don't know, 50, 100 times, whatever it is, I deem them trustworthy. I can feel safe knowing yes, they've earned my trust, right? Now think about this. Now that person betrays us. Not only was this likely the person we trusted the most, this was the person who gave us a sense of safety and security who just took it away. What's even worse is now we look at it saying, uh-oh, my whole system that I've created to know to discern trustworthiness is fundamentally flawed. It's like my compass is broken. So to trust in someone else, how can we do that? We don't trust ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Any sense?

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Yes, 1000%. So here in Transformation Station, we always give our listeners and viewers an opportunity to just stop and listen and really hone in. And so, to all of our leaders and listeners right now, this is a good time to just stop and assess. A good time to stop and see what is resonating with you as Dr. Debbie is sharing with us, as she's teaching us what's resonating with you, because you have an opportunity when this podcast is over to pivot, to do different, to start over, to lead well. So I want to ask you this next question, right? How can we as leaders recognize the difference between healthy caution and the emotion walls and the emotional walls created by unresolved betrayals? How can we recognize the difference?

SPEAKER_01 8:40

You know, there's there's wise trust, that's trust with discernment, and that's built, that's created. But what happens is if we do not rebuild trust, we do one of two things. We just keep giving it away because we don't like the feeling of not being able to trust. We don't like how that feels. So we're like, you know what? Let me just, I'm just gonna trust everybody and and hope for the best. Hope is not a strategy. We know that, right? We do that, or we with we withhold it. And and that's not working for us either. It has to be, people ask me all the time, can trust be repaired? And I say no, it can be rebuilt though, but it's a big job, and it starts with self-trust. So it also starts with it as much as it has to do with rebuilding trust, it has to do with the third out of the three discoveries. That has so much to do with the third discovery, which is this was the most exciting out of all three. And I'm happy to share all three discoveries. But the third was that while we can stay stuck for years, decades, a lifetime, and so many people do, if we're going to fully heal, we will move through five proven predictable stages. And what's even more exciting about that is we know what happens physically, mentally, and emotionally at every stage, and we know what we need to do in order to move from one stage to the next. Healing's entirely predictable. And as it relates to your, you know, everybody listening or to this, if you're the leader and you of your team and your team is struggling with an unhealed betrayal, you're gonna see it in a lack of engagement, in a lack of energy, in absenteeism, in turnover, in in a low morale, low productivity. And it's because they're struggling. They don't want to tell you, right? They they tell us within the PBT Institute, they're not telling you. And then what you'll see as the leader, you're gonna have that inability to trust. You're not gonna feel safe. You will micromanage. So it's showing up on both ends, and it's really affecting uh not only is it affecting your team, it's affecting your business, it's affecting your bottom line.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

I'm quiet for a moment because I'm trying to take that. This is this is some rich goodness right here. And you know, as you were talking, I was thinking, you know, for our leaders, here's a really good best practice. And that is pause when you notice withdrawal or defensiveness and evaluate whether whether the response is proportionate to the current situation. You know, we talk about walls, many times emotional walls prevent access, access to what's real, right? Um, you know, what question that I have often asked myself when I'm trying to recognize the difference is am I protecting what is valuable or am I protecting myself from feeling vulnerable? And many times it's vulnerable again. And so many times we resurrect walls, many times for things that really are not really happening because we're trying to defend ourselves in advance, or there's someone or something that has caused a trigger to something that we've gone through in the past, and we it's it's not even about the mission, the goal, the team, it's about us trying to protect ourselves. And this response limits growth and trust and connection. So, you know, you mentioned one of the stages. And so I'm gonna ask you, talk to us. What are the five stages from betrayal to breakthrough that were discovered in your study?

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Yeah, and everything you just spoke to, that's the most common stage we get stuck in. Everything you just said was all stage three. And you'll see it. I'm gonna give you an idea of what the stages look like. And and you'll see how uh when your team, when that leader is stuck in stage three, that's where business goes down. And you'll see it. So stage one, this is actually before it happens. And here's where I think about it, when we believe we're in a healthy relationship, whether it's a working relationship, home relationship, and by the way, before I even go through the stages, it doesn't even matter if it's a workplace betrayal, of course it's gonna affect the workplace. But even if it's a if it if it's a betrayal that happens outside of the workplace, it is impossible for it not to impact the workplace.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Mercy.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

So even if it happens outside, it's showing up at work. You cannot leave it outside. Even that you want to, you try, you can't. Okay. So when we think we're in a healthy relationship, we're trusting. We're not we're not scanning for betrayal, we're not, we're not looking for it, right? We're doing the things. And that's why when we have this experience of betrayal, we are so shocked. We're so blindsided. So stage one is actually before it happens. And we're kind of on autopilot. We're busy, we're raising our families, and we're taking care of elderly parents, possibly, and we're working and doing all the things. Then we get the shock, the biggest shock to our body, to our mind, to our heart. And here's where in the beginning, you do need to ruminate a little bit, think about it, go over it, go over it. But here's why. And so many people will say, you know, you need to move on already. Later on, yes, you do. Early on, the reason why you're doing this is because you're going back and you're saying, What did I miss?

SPEAKER_02 14:11

What did I not see?

SPEAKER_01 14:13

And you're doing that because you're you're thinking, if I can figure out what I missed, I can prevent it from happening again. So it's a really important thing to do. But stage two, shock. This is the biggest shock. This is um a breakdown of the body, the mind, the world view. So right here, you've ignited the stress response. You're now headed for every single stress-related symptom, illness, condition, disease. Your mind is in a complete state of chaos and overwhelm. You cannot understand what just happened. Your worldview has just been shattered. This is your mental model, the rules that govern you that prevent chaos. Trust this person, don't go here, right? Whatever. And in one earth-shattering moment, right? Everything you've been holding to be real and true is no longer. Here's where you discover the infidelity. Here's where the partner stole the company funds. Like you're just completely shocked. But think about it: if the bottom were to bottom out on you, what would you do? You grab hold of anything or anyone in order to stay and stay alive. And that's stage three. Survival instincts emerge. Now, this is the stage that most people get stuck in, and here's why. Because it feels so much better than the shock and trauma you just came from, we think it's good. And we don't know there's anywhere else to go. So we create a functioning life right here. Now, here's the biggest piece the best coaches miss because they were never trained this. Counselors miss this, therapists miss this. The executive, the leader, let's say, gets to a place where they say, I'm fine. And the truth is they are, they're functioning. Right. So what happens is the person, let's say they're working with a coach, but they're, you know, they're looking for that next level of success. The coach doesn't know, so they let them go. And and that's stage three. If the coach only knew the five stages, they would say, Oh, fine means they're just functioning, they're just surviving, they're not thriving. And so they let them go then. The the executive feels, I guess this is as good as it's gonna get. The coach says, I don't get it. I and all my stuff works on other, you know, clients. Why is it not working on those people? It's because your most resistant client, that client who presents as fine, that's an unhealed betrayal. Even if it happened 20, 30 years ago, it doesn't matter. So there it's it's behind walls. It's there's they're not trusting, there's no vulnerability. It takes a lot of courage to do that. They're not willing. You know, and now here because they're so unhappy, but they have to, they have to work, they have to do all the things, right? Here they start numbing, avoiding, distracting, right? So they'll use food, drugs, alcohol, work, TV, whatever. Now they do it for a day, a week, a month. Now it's a habit, a year, 10 years, 20 years. And I can see someone 20 years later and say, you know, that drinking you're doing, do you think that has anything to do with your betrayal? They look at me like I'm crazy. They say it happened 20 years ago. All they did was lock themselves in stage three. And stage absolutely. Absolutely. And that's all they're doing. They're surviving, they have their story, they're sticking with it. It's the familiar known, they're functioning, and they're like, you know what? It's so much better than what was, I'll take it. They have no idea what's waiting for them in stages four and five.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

If they're willing, willingness is a big word right here, to let go of the story, all it gives them. They can move to stage four. Grieve more than the less, bunch of things you need to do. Stage four is finding and adjusting to a new normal. So here's where you acknowledge I can't undo what happened, but I control what I do with it. Very forward moving. Here's where we're we're really looking and saying, what am I no longer willing to tolerate? What have I outgrown? What was I settling for? What am I ready for now? Who do I want to become? Lots of questions, right? Very uh engaging, very like it's about me now. It's about who I'm ready to become. And when we've settled into this new space, we've made it kind of mentally home. We move into the fifth, most beautiful stage. And this is healing, rebirth, and a new worldview. The body starts to heal, self-love, self-care, eating well, exercise. We didn't have the bandwidth for that earlier. Now we do. The mind is healing. We're making all kinds of new rules, new boundaries based on the road we just traveled, and we have a whole new worldview based on everything we see so clearly now. And if I tell you how many new businesses, new levels of health, new levels of financial success, new relationships, either with the person who hurt them in a very different way or someone entirely new, um, that's all available in stage five. You don't have access to any of that in stage where most people sit uh stay. That's before it happens, and that's where we're kind of prioritizing the physical and mental thinking and doing over the emotional and the spiritual feeling and being. So it's called that stage one was before that's stage one. It's before the betrayal, autopilot. You know, just we're we're just living, we're existing. Stage two, this is the shock, trauma, D-Day, discovery day. This is the breakdown of the body, the mind, and the world view. Stage three, survival instincts emerge. Very practical, where most people live forever. Stage four is finding and adjusting to a new normal, forward moving. Who do I want to be? What am I ready for now? And stage five, healing, rebirth, and a new worldview. Now, can you imagine a coach who's now certified? This is all we do is certify coaches and practitioners in the five stages. If they know the five stages and now they take them through that transformation, could you imagine the difference in the workforce? Can you imagine the difference in that leader? You know, when you were letting them go at stage three, and now if they let if they graduate them uh in stage five, I mean it's a it's a game changer. It's revolutionary, it's freedom.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

It is freedom. So, Transformation Station leaders, I'm gonna invite you right now to get out your notebook, your journal, your iPad, whatever you have a note-taking device, and you need to go ahead and take stock of these five stages. I'm gonna invite you to go back and watch this on the replay and make sure you share it and have a conversation about it because Dr. Debbie just walked us through the five stages. One, she said autopilot, right? Two, shock, shock and trauma. Three, survival. You're in survival mode, right? Just coping. Four, we get a new normal. We, and then number five, we have the healing and rebirth. And so we invite you to really stop, assess, hone in, take seriously, ask some fruitful questions. And at the end of this, Dr. Debbie's gonna share with us how we can tap into her institute and the powerful work that they are doing so that we can grow and lead well. So I want to ask you this question here. What impact does unhealed betrayal have on trust, communication, and the ability to build strong teams or partnerships?

SPEAKER_01 21:44

You know, it's it like I said, it affects everything. I have, I want to share with you some their post betrayal syndrome. That's real. And when they move through the same heals, I want to share with you some statistics and how it's Going to affect uh companies. Ready? Okay. So we've tested over 100,000 people. 84% after betrayal have an inability to trust. Now, if this is unhealed, if they're living in stage three, impaired team collaboration, resistance to feedback, increased conflict and understanding and misunderstandings. 88% struggle with extreme sadness, reduced motivation and engagement, withdrawal from colleagues, impact on creativity and problem solving, right? So let's say you're you know in your business, you need to be creative. That's gone. Uh here, a different one. 60 uh 47% had weight changes and digestive issues. So common. So think about that. Physical health and job performance, increased medical leave, impact on professional image, right? If you're uncomfortable, you're and you're selling your product or program, you can't put yourself out there. You don't feel right. So it's right. Uh 78% felt oh felt overwhelmed. So this is how it shows up in the workplace. Increased mistakes and errors, missed deadlines, increased risk of burnout. Now it's going to present, like if you're if you're the leader with your team, it's going to look like they're burned out, they're disengaged. It's, I'm telling you, at the root of it, very often is an unhealed betrayal. Um 68% had an inability to focus and concentrate, again, out of over 100,000 people. That's going to look like decreased productivity and efficiency, poor quality of work, difficulty in learning and development.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

So think about what's happening with your company. I'll just read a few more. Oh, this one, 83% were very angry. What's that gonna do to your work? Conflict in the workplace, increased stress for others, reputational damage. This is all someone's you know mismanaged anger. Um, 81%, I'll just this last one, 81% felt a loss of personal power, decreased productivity, difficulty in collaboration and trust building, difficulty in decision making. Every single one of these things, you could see how it could take a company down. Absolutely. Absolutely, absolutely all from an unhealed betrayal that could have happened 50 years ago.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

So I know this next question that everybody who's listening and watching right now, I know they're thinking it. All right, so Dr. Debbie, you I'm sold. You you you you you're walking down my street, you call me out, I got it. I need you, Dr. Debbie, to talk to us. What healing practices or mindset shifts will help leaders, will help us to move from pain and self-protection, right, towards restoration, resilience, and healthy leadership.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Yeah, I love that you brought that up because that's what coaches are trained with the best mindset tools and all this stuff. But here's the thing: it all has to do with what stage someone is in. Because, for example, if someone is in stage two, they will reject every mindset tool you give them. And so a coach is gonna be like, I don't get it. This stuff is good. And the truth is, it is good, not for someone in stage two.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Great for someone in stage four. So to answer your question, it's all stage appropriate. You want to know what's like, for example, if you're in shock and trauma, you need to regulate your nervous system because your mind has just been hijacked. So you need to regulate the nervous system. It all has to do with what stage you are in, because that's when those great tools can work exponentially well. But if you're in if you're using great tools, wrong stage, backfires every single time.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

What an amazing conversation we are having. What a masterclass today, as we turn the corner on this conversation. Take us home here. And I want to ask you, like for real, for real, what is one practical first step that we as leaders can take towards healing and rebuilding trust? You mentioned ourselves, right? So, what's a practical step that we can take to rebuild trust in ourselves and trust in others?

SPEAKER_01 26:09

Yeah. You know, trust in yourself, you do that before you even think about trusting in anybody else. And you know, your word has to become law. If you say something, you mean it and give yourself little tasks. I mean, I'm talking like, I'm gonna drink that glass of water and then you do, I'm gonna make that phone call and then you do. I will not call that X and then you don't, whatever it is, right? And what you're doing is you're showing yourself if I say something, I mean it because trust is so shattered after betrayal, and we need to rebuild that trust in ourselves. And it comes from just these little micro moves that we make so that we can feel so safe and comfortable that if we say something, it's true, it's real, we can trust it.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

I love this. So I'm gonna ask you, put you on the spot one more. Talk to the leader right now. That leader that's listening, that's watching, that's like, I hear you, this sounds good, I want it, but I'm afraid to take that first step. What would you say to them?

SPEAKER_01 27:14

I'd say, Well, how's stage three working for you? You know what life gives you in stage three. I'm gonna give you an analogy so you see it so clearly. Let's say there are two best friends and they're both 30 pounds overweight. Doesn't stop them from doing anything. They look fine, they really do, right? But one of them says one day, you know, I'm so done with the 30 pounds, and she loses weight and exercises, and now she feels great. And she's buying clothes that she wants versus what fits, she's got the energy, like whatever it meant for her. And she says to the other friend, come on, it's so good over here. Because she knows both places. But the friend who still has the 30 pounds on her, she's like, No, I'm fine. And the truth is she is, but if she knew what stage five felt like, she wouldn't waste a minute in stage three. It's the it's it's only unfamiliar. But you've been through the worst of it already. You owe it to yourself to create a version of you that is so healthy, whole, healed, strong, empowered, and that's earned as you move through stages four and five.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Leaders, Dr. Debbie said, you owe it to yourself. You gotta put your own mask on first before you can rescue anyone else. Dr. Debbie, this has been extremely powerful, and I know personally I'm gonna go back and watch the replay. Um, but how can our listeners and viewers engage with you, your resources, find out more?

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Yeah, thank you. Everything is at the PBT is in post-betrayal transformation, thePtinstitute.com.

SPEAKER_00 28:44

Love it, love it, love it. Okay, so listeners, viewers, you know we love to support our guests. I'm gonna invite you. You see the link right here on the screen. It's also in the description box. I want you to engage with Dr. Debbie. As a matter of fact, let her know that you saw you heard this particular episode. Let her know what resonated with you. Tap into the institute, use the resources because we know the community that learns together grows together. Dr. Debbie, it's been wonderful to have you. We're gonna have you back again. I just want you to know that in advance. Thank you. We just surfacing this conversation. But thank you for adding so much value to our leadership community today. Thank you so much. Absolutely. All right, Transformation Station. Listen, what did I learn? I learned from Dr. Debbie that transformation is never only external, it begins with me as a leader being willing to allow healing to take place within myself. And I know that I'm not alone. You're with me because Dr. Debbie reminded us that healing unresolved betrayal, it's not just personal growth, it's leadership growth. Thank you for joining us here on Transformation Station today. I know that this episode resonated with you. So you have a task. Right now, I'm inviting you to go ahead and share this episode with two leaders in your network. And remember, don't just share it with them, have a conversation as well. So until next time, keep doing the inner work, keep leading with emotional courage and keep on creating the kind of trust and transformation that begins from within.