TSLP Season 4 Ep. 3- Beyond Communication

What if communication isn’t actually the problem?

In this powerful Season 4 episode of the Transformation Station Leadership Podcast, I’m joined by Diane McDowell for a conversation that goes deeper than communication strategies and surface-level fixes. Together, we explore what’s really happening beneath the tension, silence, and “walking on eggshells” so many leaders and teams experience.

This episode uncovers the hidden leadership dynamics that shape trust, psychological safety, and the culture people either lean into or withdraw from. Diane shares how leaders can move beyond simply “communicating better” and instead create environments where honesty, clarity, and true trust can thrive.

If you’ve ever wondered why teams still hold back even when communication channels exist, this conversation will challenge and equip you in all the right ways.

Learn more about Diane:
Website: https://www.powerfulquestionscoaching...
LinkedIn:   / diane-mcdowell 
Facebook:   / emotionalsafetyco 

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Until next time, stand tall, step bold, and own your transformation.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:19

Everyone talks about communication as the solution. But what if communication is not the real problem? What if the real issue is the environment leaders create that make people feel unsafe to speak at all? Come on, let's get this conversation started. We're talking about why people still walk on eggshells in organizations, even when communication appears open on the surface. I can't wait for you to meet our guest. She is an amazing leader and expert who helps organizations uncover hidden cultural and leadership dynamics. But before you meet her, I just want to share a few things with you. Number one, I want to remind you every Monday and Wednesday, here we are as a community having these conversations. So make sure that you subscribe. You can go to Mobilizing with Impact, uh, Transformation Station. You can go there, these pages, and subscribe, follow, like so that you don't miss even one episode. I also want to remind you of an event that we have coming up, April 13 to 16. We have our second leader shift conference. Now, the first one, we had over 400 of you that registered. We had an amazing time together. And this time it's lead her shift adjustment. And we're talking about the fact that, yes, listen, everybody makes mistakes, things don't always go as planned. But when those types of occurrences happen, that's not a sign to quit or give up. It's a sign that maybe we just need an adjustment. All right, so 13 to 16 April, make sure you save the date. Registration opens on March 13. If you have not put this on your calendar, why not? Let's go because I want to make sure to see you there. Well, it's time for us to start our conversation. And let me tell you a little bit about our guest today. Her name is Diane. Diane is the creator of the Brain to Heart Code, a neuroscience-backed method helping emotionally intelligent, ambitious individuals end emotional disconnection and rebuild to rebuild deep, honest connection from the inside out. Without years of therapy, burnout, or needing their partner to change, Diane's approach blends cutting-edge brain science, somatic regulation, emotional leadership, and self-reclamation. She teaches them and she'll teach us how to lead and love differently, not by working harder or communicating better, but by restoring internal safety, learning to trust our emotional truth and finally reconnecting from a place of strength, not survival. It is my absolute honor today to welcome you, Diane, here to Transformation Station. Thank you for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me. I love your energy. And that as leaders, um, you know, we can have an open door policy, we can have all the meetings in the world, we can create feedback channels. But if my team members, if they don't feel emotionally safe in how I'm communicating and what I'm communicating and how I'm leading, then all of these structures don't really matter. And, you know, when we talk about eggshells, people don't walk on eggshells because they lack something. I have found in my experience many times that people walk on eggshells because they're unsure. And so I want to start off with this question. Here's the question. Many of us as leaders, we tend to believe that communication is the problem. But what's the deeper issue actually? But what's the deeper issue that actually causes people to walk on eggshells at work?

SPEAKER_01 5:06

So here's what happens. We our nervous system is actually what. So I ask people, it's not about what you're saying, it's about who's speaking. When I say that, it sounds kind of interesting. So it's like, what do you mean who's speaking? I'm speaking. But actually, no, is it the hijacked brain or is it the self-led brain? Who is speaking matters, it changes everything. So I used to joke with adolescents when I used to work with them when I first graduated in '99. And I used to say to them, you can say offensive words unoffensively. Like it's who is speaking. And so that's what I'm talking about here. Yes, we all need to communicate well, but communication isn't the issue. The issue is who is speaking, because we can say the calmest words, but our body can be speaking a complete our body can be hijacked, our nervous system can be hijacked. And even though they may sound calm on the outside, they don't appear calm. There's just that makes them feel unsafe.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Talk to us a little bit more about that. Take us deeper.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

So, what we know is that our brain hears at a much slower level than our nervous system takes in. So, our system takes in 300,000 more bites of information in a second than our brain. So, our system is already taking all this information in and making decisions ahead of time. And so, what we have to learn to do is make sure that we're grounded before we have a conversation. We need to go. And what I teach people is come from love. If you can't come from love, don't have the conversation yet. And so you go and you ground yourself, people how to turn on their own safety switch. A lot of us outsource it to other people. If they behave a certain way, then I would be in a good mood, then I would be able to manage them well, then then we wouldn't have communication issues. Right. But we outsource it to their behavior. And so what I teach is you create your own safety switch. So when you go have conversations, your safety switch is on. You don't see their words as a threat, you don't see their behavior as a threat or um challenging or defensive because your safety switch is on.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

I am so excited about the rest of this conversation because already you have my mind rolling. So, what exactly is brain hijack? Talk to us, please. How does it silently sabotage even healthy relationships?

SPEAKER_01 7:38

So here's what happens. And our our brain hijack is the the second that our brain goes into safety mode, trying to keep us safe. So it is not, and a lot of times, and I actually kind of talk about this a lot, is our a lot of people feel like they're high, they're they are sabotaging themselves. It's not that your brain is sabotaging you, it is doing its best to keep you safe. It is doing its job. So I use the analogy of I have a lab, a black lab, when someone comes to the door, she barks. That's what dogs do. That is their job. Our reptile brain, our safety brain, is scanning for safety and it's doing its job by saying danger, danger. So when we feed off of someone else's nervous system and it there's a red flag going, danger, danger, our nervous system is just trying to keep us safe. So the brain hijack is actually our nervous system saying, you're in danger and responding in that way, even though we're really not in danger, but that's what our brain is telling us.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

So, how does this silently sabotage even the healthiest of relationships?

SPEAKER_01 8:45

So, what happens is we aren't even aware of it, but because we're feeding off of their nervous system and we don't feel safe, we start to, we're reacting in unsafe ways. So here's what'll happen. If they have a deep sigh and our brain will say, they're frustrated with me, they're ready to give up, they don't like me as an employee. Or if they like turn around and pick up their phone while you're talking to them, our brain will say, They don't think I'm important. They don't value me. And so it sabotages, even though it's really not, it's doing its job, but it sends off alarms in our brain. And so I'm gonna I'm gonna kind of jump into another part of this. Is one of the skills I teach is really stepping into most of us know this logically, but really stepping into and embodying the belief I'm 100% lovable, valuable, and worthy. No matter what, because I'm human, nothing I do or say makes me more or less lovable, valuable, or worthy. And if they don't see it in me, it's a reflection of them. When we can come from that place, when they pick up their phone and we feel like they're saying we're not important, we're not gonna be offended because we're 100% lovable, valuable, and worthy. Nothing they do changes that. So when we really embody that, we can see it as their behavior and a reflection of them and how they're showing up and not to do with us.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

This is so important, right? Because many times as leaders, um, we are told when you're in the workspace, don't take it personal. Like this is work, kind of categorize it so that your whole internal system does not jump into the chaos, does not, like you say, it's almost as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking about how many times in the past I have created scenarios in my mind based off of what I saw someone in that really wasn't reality. It really wasn't true. So 1000% I get what you're saying. So then answer this question why is better communication not the solution, right? And what actually is?

SPEAKER_01 10:53

So here's the thing about it is better communication, it doesn't matter how great a communicator I am, if they are reading on my body that it's not a safe environment, or if they can sense, because again, our nervous system is picking up all that. So we have this unintentional signal we're sending out. And what I like to describe it is this is it's kind of like I'm gonna for not for people who are listening, it's like a trash can. And we have a trash can, but we keep slapping on better thoughts. So if you're going to a meeting and you know there's a little bit of tension between you and somebody, and you're like, okay, I'm just gonna slap on a better thought. And this is where mindset trouble comes in, but I'm gonna slap on a better thought. But the problem is underneath, I'm still having all this garbage, all this, all these thoughts about this person, and my nervous system feels hijacked and on edge and pressure, and I'm like reading into things. And because of all that, even though I might be communicating well, my underlying tone, the the little comments, the little body language that I'm giving off is not sending the same verbal met as my verbal message.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

So, as you're talking, I'm I'm thinking about this um leadership principle. And the leadership principle says trust is the foundation of communication. Without trust, communication becomes performance. What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_01 12:48

100%, and not without communication, but grounded, like feeling safe. Because, in my opinion, the most important thing is nervous system safety. Without it, we're performing, we're presenting what we think, and this is where people pleasing comes in, too. Is we we are presenting what we think somebody else wants, not who who we really are and what we really think. So, what happens a lot of times in leadership is we sense that it's not safe, our nervous system sense that it's not safe, and so we pretend when things are okay, but really aren't we pretend we agree, we pretend. So, yes, with but it's not it's not just communication, it's nervous system safety. When nervous system is safe, then we can communicate appropriately.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

I like that.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

But the first step is nervous system safety.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Here on Transformation Station, we always invite our viewers and listeners to take a few moments and really digest what they're hearing. So, to everybody, I want to invite you right now, take a time, take a few moments and really process what Diane is sharing with us. This is really deep. Take some time to understand how your own um your thoughts, how your um body system connects, how that shows up in how you lead. One best practice that we want to share with you right now is reward honesty with your team, not just agreement. When someone speaks up, especially with the hard truth, acknowledge it. Thank them and protect their dignity. You are also helping to stabilize the environment and giving your team an opportunity to realize that it's safe to be able to be honest. And so we want to share that best practice with you. On that note, Diane, here's the next question: What leadership habits, often unintentional, create environments where people feel unsafe to speak up honestly?

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Okay, and that kind of ties to what you were just saying, because I kind of want to piggyback on that. Is when you're when you're saying thank people and and and encourage people to be honest, yes, but make sure your nervous system is sending that message too. Because what often happens is we say the words, but our nervous system is defensive because we feel like they challenged us or we're like guarded and we're like thanks, but there's a little passive-aggressive feel to it. So you want to really make sure that you are you and and what I want to suggest is if you can't say it in that space, and you actually thank them for being willing to share and say, I still need to ponder this, I still need to think about this, I still need to see how this applies, but you want to make sure you're being honest and not fake because people know when we're being fake, even when, and I have so many clients who will say, People don't, I'm really good at faking it. No, people know. And so you don't want to pretend you are appreciative if you're not. You want to be honest and say things like, I'm I'm really glad you spoke up, and I really need to think about this and process it and see how it lands for me and see if there's something I want to add to that. So you really want to honor you so that they really feel heard, not that it was presentation.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I love this. And again, to all of our leaders, even if you're listening to this right now, you can send us a DM, right? Share with us like what works for you. What are some of the ways that you share and that you do this as far as communicating and having your nervous system a part of the process and you're able to communicate? One of the things that I I have been trying lately, Diane, is I had a mentor who recently said to me, Listen, you do you do all the things, but I need you to slow down. They said when you get an email, you don't have to answer the email right away, especially if the email is a little spicy. You don't have to re respond right away and be just slow down, read, let let a little bit of time go. It could be five minutes, ten minutes, could be an hour, it could be the next day, and respond when you know you're in a calm place. So, one of my best practices is slow down your response. And to me, that goes right in alignment with what you're saying about your response connecting with your nervous system, connecting with your body. What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_01 17:03

I I totally agree. I teach people don't do anything from urgency. Anytime you want to do anything from urgency, you are not grounded, don't take action from that place. Go and reground yourself and get clear. And I think I want to back up because I want to get clear on what I mean by nervous system safety. Because we talk about it, and I sometimes I don't think we get clear on what I what we mean by that. So I want to back up. So thoughts are sentences in our brain. Feelings are sensations in our body. So when we are thinking about the sensations in our body, those are still thoughts. So a lot of times people will like, will say, Yeah, I'm I know how to feel my feelings. I can stay present with my feelings. When I ask them, they're like thinking about their feelings. So I want to get clear when you are experiencing and connecting to your body and your nervous system, it's not thinking about it. It is totally being present. And it sounds like this a pit of the stomach feeling, heat going up through my body, two jabs in my chest pulling me tight, um, lava rolling around in my belly, like it is thoughts that we have to describe it, but it is sensations in our body. So when we talk about being present nervous system-wise, we're talking about checking in with your body, getting present with your body, scanning it. One of the things I teach people to start when they don't really know what I'm talking about is just asking themselves, does my body feel heavy or light? Does it feel cold or hot? Does it feel open or closed? Do I have tension somewhere? So you just start asking yourselves questions. The questions don't matter near as much, is staying present in our body because what we want to do is think about and we want to say, well, if they had behaved different, I wouldn't be feeling this way. And we got to stay out of our head and in our body. So the questions that we ask just help keep us present so we can ground ourselves, so we can get aligned nervous system-wise. So tell us this like, can you explain why people pleasing is actually self-betrayal, not this is so hard for so many people because they'll say, and I want to differentiate, there is nothing wrong with doing kind things for people. There is nothing wrong for helping other people out. When it becomes a problem, because that's where people will say to me, is what's the problem with me being extra kind, helping people out, taking on more to make other people's lives better? The problem isn't that. The problem is twofold. When I do it at my own expense, that's called people pleasing.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

The other part is I'm chipping away and lying to myself and lying to them when I say I want to do something I don't want to do. So every time I agree to do something at work, take on another project that I really know I can't handle, um, mentor somebody I know I really can't handle. I break my relationship with myself.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Mercy.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

So that's why it looks good on the outside. People pleasing can look fantastic, but it is breaking our relationship with ourselves and it is lying to other people.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

So talk to us a little bit more about this because I think this honestly is a pain point for many leaders that unless you really hear it from somebody else, it's a little hard to um self-regulate yourself to break out of that.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Yeah. So what I help leaders do often is be okay with other people not liking their not taking on more. Learning how to be okay with other people not liking your response and not feeling like you have to fix it, or a lot of times leaders will start over-explaining, over talking. Usually, less is best. The way I teach it is the minute you start to explain, you just opened it as a conversation, as if they have a right to instead of just making a statement. So short is better, unless it truly is. If it is really a feedback, like, hey, what do you think about taking this on? But a lot of times we overexplain, and when we do the minute we do that, we just said it's an option, it's a discussion, and then we start feeling bad, and then we back down on our boundaries. And I want to um add in here that I do boundaries a little different than a lot of people, and a lot of people will say, um, other people don't respect my boundaries. And what I actually teach is other people don't have to, only we do. So a boundary is what I will do. If you take on this project and you don't get it done by the state, here's what I will do. If you um are late to work and you aren't following through on what you said, here's what I will do. It is always what I will do. But what most of us try to do is say, you can't do that, you shouldn't do that. And then we say that's a boundary. We say, I told them, I have so many people will say, I told my mom she can't talk to me like that, or I told my boyfriend he can't talk to me like that. And I'm like, that's not a boundary, that's controlling. So a boundary is what we will do and they don't have to respect it. We do.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

We do. So if I go off of what you just shared, the boundary would be if I say if they talk to me in a disrespectful manner, I will end the conversation until they can talk to me respectfully. Then the boundary is if when they talk to me disrespectfully, ending the conversation and not coming back to it until they choose to do different.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Well, and I actually teach it not so much that they choose to do different, because if you think about this, our brain gets in hijack mode. So I am always responsible for the uh how I show up. What I teach people is walk away from every conversation, proud of how you. handled it so if you cannot do that it's your job to to take a time out to to get some space so tell me again okay um so here's what I teach people is let's revisit this in 20 minutes because that gives us a time or 15 or half an hour so here's an example that happened this week uh one of my clients she is having episode her and her partner play cards at night and he's winning all the time so she's getting very mad and so because he makes little jabs when he's winning and one of the things we had to do was to tell her if you continue to speak to me that way I will and I will stop playing. What she kept doing was keep playing and then she was like if he would just stop then I would feel better. And that's what we do is we we're like if they would behave a certain way then I could feel better and I wouldn't have to set a boundary. Very so the boundary is really to to protect that I show up in a way I'm proud. And if I can't then I need to be putting a boundary in place.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

I love that hashtag to everybody it's not even a hashtag but just go ahead and put the line walk away from every conversation proud of how you handled it. And I think I may have changed your word just a little bit. No that was that was that was my takeaway from it and I I actually love that I'm gonna use that with my team man what a difference it would make if we held ourselves accountable and chose to just do that walk away pleased and proud of how we handled it. I think we really would communicate a lot differently. So so then what mindset shift must leaders make to move from controlling the conversation to creating psychological safety and trust okay I love that question.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

I want to come back to it one second because I want to go back to not only walk away from every conversation proud of how you showed up but also know and like your reason for everything that you're doing and saying because and it kind of goes hand in hand because you want to and if you can't say I like my reason then pause and say let me think about this because a lot of times we say stuff at spur of the moment with this pressure and need to have an answer. And then later we're like oh I don't like how I handled that. I don't feel good about that. So know and like your reason and if you don't then say you know what I want to think about that and make sure I like my reason before I tell you this answer.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

I love that I love that. Yes okay so go back. What mindset shift should leaders make to move if I want if I'm a leader and I want to move from controlling the conversation to creating psychological safety and trust how do I do that what mindset shift should I have okay and so what I want to suggest is get rid of the idea of control.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Period we don't control we don't control another human being and so get rid of the idea of trying to even ourselves what I teach people is don't try to control yourself work with yourself manage yourself lead yourself I don't even like the word manage anymore because it has a but lead yourself but we're not trying to control a situation or environment we are leading people we are leading self-led we are leading ourselves so I would say the mindset shift would be get rid of the idea of trying to control we don't have it's a delusion that we have control.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Mm-hmm I love that one of the um the the best practices leadership principles that I found when I was getting ready for this was um what the shift could look like from needing to be right to being willing to listen. Leaders stop seeing feedback or disagreement as a threat and start seeing it as insight. So to all of our leaders I'm gonna invite you to take everything that Diane is saying process it reflect on it ask yourself what are some of the first steps that I can take to actually put this into practice right and if you're struggling right now with control let it go start to remove ask yourself how can I remove this desire and ask yourself where does it come from this need to be right and then put into practice challenge yourself I'm gonna start listening and see the difference that it will begin to make in your environment so I want to ask you this question what practical steps can leaders take to create a culture where people feel safe to share ideas concerns and even disagreements what practical steps can can we take as leaders I want to suggest and if you feel comfortable some people may not but I really want to suggest starting to talk some about our nervous system and actually saying in a meeting hey let me see how that lands for a second because it's genuine people want genuine and so when you respond out of impulse it doesn't feel genuine a lot of times because it isn't thought out so I think setting up a culture that says hey that really felt heavy or that really felt hard for me let me think about that it opens it up for other people to do the same. I love that 1000% I'm gonna ask you to just talk to us as leaders for a moment what advice would you give to the leader that is listening and watching right now saying I hear you Diane it sounds good.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

I just still don't know how to take that first step what advice would you give to us today okay so my what I teach people and what I really believe is the most important earthly relationship we have is with ourselves. So don't try to lead other people until you've figured out how to lead yourself emotionally all of it. So starting to really become a wise watcher of yourself and what's happening for yourself most of us as humans think we're insightful. We're not most of us are insightful from other people but not on ourselves. And so really it's about building your relationship with yourself so that you know no matter what happens, you will show up in a way you're proud and then you can start leading other people in a different way because you're not trying to control. If you think about control, what happens is I feel out of control. So I try to control other people the more out of control I feel the more I try to control other people. So really when you have this urge to control things or fix things it's really about connecting with yourself. So I want to suggest what I teach is becoming the wise watcher. So the first thing is own that it's all your responsibility to manage your own emotions and how you lead. The second is to start becoming a wise watcher of your thoughts. We have 60 to 8000 thoughts a day starting to notice what those thoughts are and how they are affecting you and just start becoming a watcher. And here's the thing about the watcher is you learn to observe it without obeying it. You learn to notice it without listening and making it true or buying into the story of it.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

I love that that is great advice what a wonderful way to end this session today. So listen I know beyond a shadow of a doubt Diane that number one the leaders who are listening and watching want to go back and watch this again because you dropped some serious nuggets. Also I know that there are leaders that want to engage a little bit more with your resources find out a little bit more about your experience and so how can we continue to engage with you?

SPEAKER_01 29:58

So you can go to emotional safetyco.com and I have a free resource tab and there are three resources under there that you can click on and utilize absolutely all right transformation station listen you know we like to support our guests I'm gonna invite you you see the link here on the screen is also in the description box.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Go get those free resources because we know the community that learns together grows together. Also I want to invite you to reach out to Diane. Send her a note let her know that you saw you heard this episode and let her know what resonated with you as you watch or listen to this podcast today. Diane, thank you so much for this masterclass here on communication going beyond it. And I want to thank you again just for being with us. You have definitely added value to our leadership community today. Thank you. Absolutely all right well listen this conversation today it challenged us it challenged you and I to look beyond communication tactics and to examine the deeper foundation of trust safety leadership presence. I want to thank Diane again for helping us to understand that real leadership isn't about controlling the message. It's about creating an environment where you and I where our teams feel safe enough to bring our full voice. And if this episode resonated with you I want to invite you to be sure to subscribe to Transformation Station Leadership Podcast. Share this conversation with another leader in your network who is committed to building trust not just managing communication so until next time lead with clarity lead with courage and lead in a way that makes others feel safe to rise